Diane Wu: Who do you think Christopher Fouts is? How do you imagine him?

Caroline: I imagine that maybe he has, like-- this is a very specific thing that I'm imagining.

Diane Wu: Go for it.

Caroline: OK, so I imagine that, I don't know, he has a day-to-day office job where he comes in to the cubicle every day, and grinds away. And so on the side, he likes to pull these pranks and whatnot.

XXX

Caroline: Life's an adventure. I mean-- yeah, it's like-- I feel like if I had the mentality that life was a guy reducing his shipping costs, that would be just so sad.

Ira Glass: I have to say, I'm with you. I also think life is an adventure, but I do acknowledge the stunning amount of information that we get all the time, letting us know that a lot of it is a guy reducing his shipping cost.

Caroline: Yes. Most of the data points are a guy reducing his shipping cost, I would say.

XXX

Frank Borman: Space science fiction still bores me. I've never seen-- what's the name of that-- that very popular--

Emmanuel Vaughan-Lee: 2001?

Frank Borman: Yeah, all that crap. I've never seen any of that.

Emmanuel Vaughan-Lee: And what about the stars or astronomy?

Frank Borman: No.

Emmanuel Vaughan-Lee: None of that?

Frank Borman: Airplanes.

Emmanuel Vaughan-Lee: Airplanes, and airplanes only.

Frank Borman: Airplanes, and airplanes only.

Emmanuel Vaughan-Lee: Wow. Wow.

Frank Borman: And a certain particular girl.

Emmanuel Vaughan-Lee: Susan.

Frank Borman: Yeah. So--

XXX

Frank Borman: I never knowingly altered it, but it was very difficult for me to be as candid now, I think, as I was then-- I just didn't cover some things as in-depth as you're doing here today.

Emmanuel Vaughan-Lee: And when you have been this candid and honest as you are now, what's been people's reactions?

Frank Borman: I haven't had any reaction, because I'm just being it with you. 

XXX

Frank Borman: Nonsense to me. I-- it doesn't interest me. I'm sorry.

David Kestenbaum: To go where no man has gone before, that doesn't do anything for you?

Frank Borman: No.

David Kestenbaum: But you did it.

XXX

David Kestenbaum: What do you think he meant by that?

Frank Borman: I don't-- I have no idea. I have no idea. I don't-- whether I'm complicated or uncomplicated.

David Kestenbaum: What would Susan say?

Frank Borman: Susan says this. I was the most uncomplicated man she ever knew.

David Kestenbaum: Are you a romantic person?

Frank Borman: I think in some ways I am. I get emotional at good movies at times, and things like that.

David Kestenbaum: What movies do you watch?

Frank Borman: Probably the best movie that I've ever seen is Casablanca. I love Casablanca.

David Kestenbaum: Why do you like Casablanca?

Frank Borman: Casablanca was a wonderful wartime story of the recognition that a good cause is more important than the human being relationship.

David Kestenbaum: Oh.

Frank Borman: Win the war and lose the woman was what that was all about.

David Kestenbaum: That's the opposite of romantic.

Frank Borman: No, it's very romantic.

XXX

David Kestenbaum: I can't tell if you're the best person or the worst person to have gone to the moon, in terms of describing what it's like.

Frank Borman: I'm probably the worst.

David Kestenbaum: Did you say, at some point, they should have sent a poet?

Frank Borman: No, I didn't-- if I did, I didn't-- the last thing I would have wanted on our crew was a poet.

XXX

David Kestenbaum: How did you describe the mission to her? Like, what you'd seen. I mean, you'd just been on this incredible--

Frank Borman: I really didn't talk about it very much. As a matter of fact, I can't remember talking to her at all about it.

David Kestenbaum: You don't remember saying, you won't believe what the moon looks like. I was up there?

Frank Borman: No, we didn't talk a lot about it. No.

David Kestenbaum: Why not?

Frank Borman: It was more important to see the boys and see her. And what have you be doing? We're back. It was a wonderful time of reunion and emotion, and the last thing from my mind was to tell them what the moon looked like.

David Kestenbaum: Didn't they want to know?

Frank Borman: No. Nobody asked. 

David Kestenbaum: What do you think you did talk about?

Frank Borman: How glad I was to be home, how glad they were to have me back, and how the boys are doing in school, and why the dog's dish was still full. We got right back to the nitty-gritty's.

XXX

David Kestenbaum: If you had stayed, could you have walked on the moon?

Frank Borman: Oh, yeah. I could have. Probably. I probably could have walked on the moon. Yeah.

David Kestenbaum: Did you want to?

Frank Borman: No. Why? Look, the answer to your question-- I would have not accepted the risk involved to go pick up rocks. It doesn't mean that much to me. Somebody else wanted to do it. Let them take my place. I love my family more than anything in the world. I would have never subjected them to the dangers simply for me to be an explorer.

David Kestenbaum: How often do you think of the Apollo 8 mission? Just when you're on your own, doing your normal stuff.

Frank Borman: It never occurred in our lives much at all, really.

David Kestenbaum: I was looking up at the moon the other night, and it still feels crazy to me that you were there. If you do think back to it, is there a particular part that you tend to remember?

Frank Borman: The thing that reminds me, that I recall till the day I die, was the Earth, looking back at the Earth.

XXX

Joel Wright: Making 50 cents stretch. You know, making 85 cents stretch. Taking care of each other, making sure we ate.

Jared Marcelle: Bro, I remember there were times where we would meet in front of my house or your building. And we would say, OK, I'm going go in and look for change I got. I'll come back with like 50 cents, 75 cents. You come back with whatever you have-- a dollar, 75 cents. I looked for the change in the couch. You come back. And now we got to eat.

Joel Wright: Yeah, I remember-- I was going to a pizza shop and splitting that pizza down the middle.

XXX

Joel Wright: You remember times where I was calling you from Saudi Arabia? Like, ah, damn me. I had goat, bro.

Like, goat-- I'm eating-- I'm Jamaican. So often time, I eat curry goat. But I never had the real goat, like-- you see what I'm saying? Bro, yo.
Jared Marcelle: What's real goat?

Joel Wright: Yo, I had the whole goat. Like, I had the whole goat in front of me, bro. Like, the tongue, the eye, the teeth, everything. It was just weird over there. Sometimes in the middle of the game, you got to stop because it's praying time. But I like it though. The people is nice. It's genuine people, you know?

Jared Marcelle: Everyone on the team had to pray, even if they weren't Muslim?

Joel Wright: No, only basically, like, Saudis. When I went, I started praying with them. I started learning the first prayer. I started studying, and it was very interesting. You know, because I got so equipped with the people over there, man. Like, I'm a people's guy. You know me well--

XXX

Joel Wright: You can't-- I can't name 10 people on my finger that would make that decision, but I'm happy with my decision. I'm comfortable with my decision.

Jared Marcelle: But do you understand why I'm not that comfortable with it?

Joel Wright: Yeah-- of course, I understand why you're not that comfortable with it. I mean, you, my friends, my loved one, my mom, nothing-- nobody is comfortable with it. But it comes to a time in your life when you've got to make important decisions for the things you love. You've got to make sacrifices for the things you love. And I'm just ready to sacrifice.

Jared Marcelle: Like, what's the worst case scenario? I think we both know the worst case scenario, though-- you getting hurt. And we don't know if they'll stick by you, right? Like, we don't know if this team will stand by you and keep you around. Like, they're shipping Americans overseas like this, like a supermarket. You just buy another one.

Joel Wright: I'm not thinking about getting hurt. That's never been on my mind.

Jared Marcelle: No, of course, you're not thinking about it. But, like, these are possibilities that I feel like we have to talk about.

Joel Wright: This is possibility that's not on my mind. Because if I put that possibility in my mind, it's like I'm putting that energy in the air. That's not the energy I want in the air. That's not the vibe I want to put out in the atmosphere. I don't want to put that, because the stake is so big for me. That can't be on my mind. Being hurt can't be on my mind.

XXX

Joel's Mom: I'm going to miss you, man. I pray everything you do may prosperous and success. In the name of the Father, and the Son, and his Holy Spirit to guide you and protect you upon your journey.

Joel Wright: Yeah, yeah.

Joel's Mom: And guide you upon your--

Joel Wright: On this sacrifice.

Joel's Mom: It's a journey, OK?

Joel Wright: It's a marathon, not a sprint.

Joel's Mom: American and a sprint?

Joel Wright: It's a marathon, not a sprint.

Joel's Mom: Oh.

Joel Wright: It's not a sprint. It's no rush.

