<article_title>Abraham_Lincoln</article_title>
<edit_user>Cmguy777</edit_user>
<edit_time>Tuesday, November 30, 2010 4:05:38 AM CET</edit_time>
<edit_comment>/* Emancipation Proclamation */</edit_comment>
<edit_text>File:Emancipation proclamation.jpg Lincoln maintained that his power to end slavery was limited by the Constitution. He expected the eventual extinction of slavery would result from preventing its expansion into new U.S. territory. He also sought to persuade the states to accept compensated emancipation in return for their prohibition of slavery (an offer that took effect only in Washington, D.C.). Lincoln believed that curtailing slavery in this manner would economically expunge it, as envisioned by the Founding Fathers.&lt;ref&gt;Mackubin, Thomas O. http://www.nationalreview.com/books/owens200403251139.asp, National Review, March 2004, Retrieved September 13, 2010&lt;/ref&gt; President Lincoln rejected two emancipation attempts by Maj. Gen. John C. Frémont in August, 1861 and by Maj. Gen. David Hunter in May, 1862 on the grounds that it would upset the border states loyal to the Union.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite book |last=Guelzo |first=Allen C. |title=Abraham Lincoln: Redeemer President |p<strong><strike>p</strike></strong><strong>ages</strong>=290, 291 |year=1999}}&lt;/ref&gt;</edit_text>
<turn_user>Cmguy777<turn_user>
<turn_time>Tuesday, November 30, 2010 5:32:26 PM CET</turn_time>
<turn_topicname>Sexuality</turn_topicname>
<turn_topictext>Why is his questioned sexuality not mentioned here? It's notable enough over at Sexuality of Abraham Lincoln... DaAnHo (talk) 15:21, 22 November 2010 (UTC) See AL archives. Carmarg4 (talk) 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)Gotcha! DaAnHo (talk) 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC) Lincoln's sexuality, if legitimate, should be mentioned in the main article. He did sleep in the same bed with a man for four years. I will agree that there needs to be a valid source for any reference. Wikipedia should not promote fringe theories, however, if there is a valid source Wikipedia should not shy away from any perceived controversy. Cmguy777 (talk) 06:17, 30 November 2010 (UTC) He was a lawyer for the Circuit Court and went from town to town and had to stay in lodging. It was common then to share a bed to keep expenses down. No one thought anything of it at the time. The fact he was cheap like everyone else at the time is not notable. --Javaweb (talk) 07:14, 30 November 2010 (UTC)Javaweb If a legitimate source questions Lincoln's sexuality, then it should be briefly mentioned in the main article. Lincoln's erotic poem suggests there was some homosexual attraction. Cmguy777 (talk) 17:32, 30 November 2010 (UTC) The argument that people were cheap back then and no one thought anything about it only applies to Speed. That arguement does not apply to Lincoln as President and Derickson. Lincoln was President, he had money, no need to be cheap. Lincoln was married. If he did sleep with a man while married that would imply that he was homosexual, in my opinion. The question is did people in the 19th century accept homosexual practices? Cmguy777 (talk) 18:58, 1 December 2010 (UTC) To see what refs are available, here is the Wikipedia article section relating to this: Lincoln and Derickson. --Javaweb (talk) 19:34, 1 December 2010 (UTC)Javaweb The overwhelming number of biographers/historians of Lincoln do not support the allegations of homosexuality. The separate article shows the speculation is pressed by non-historians and non-biographers and should not be considered as reliable sources. It is, at best, a fringe claim and as such has no place in the main article. Nothing should be added to this article absent a consensus to do so. Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 22:44, 1 December 2010 (UTC) I would not add anything without consensus. I believe Tripp is a reliable author, even though his view on Lincoln is controversial. My only intention was to mention that Lincoln's sexuality has been challenged through circumstancial evidence by one historian. That is not stating that Lincoln is gay or homosexual. Wikipedia should represent alternative views in articles. I do not consider Tripp to be on the fringe, yet the theory is without direct evidence. Matthew Pinsker who authored Lincoln's Sanctuary: Abraham Lincoln and the Soldiers' Home, also discussed Lincoln's special relationship with Derickson. Lincoln's actions did create scandal in Washington. Virginia Fox said "there is a Bucktail Soldier here devoted to the President, drives with him &amp; when Mrs L. is not home, sleeps with him. What stuff!” Major Chamberlain said "Captain Derickson, in particular, advanced so far in the President's confidence and esteem that, in Mrs. Lincoln's absence, he frequently spent the night at his cottage, sleeping in the same bed with him, and—it is said—making use of His Excellency's night-shirts!" Derickson almost communicated everyday with the President. Having the President's attention in the middle of the Civil War from a Captain is very signifigant. Cmguy777 (talk) 02:25, 2 December 2010 (UTC)sleep in in the same bed?? --very common, there was a shortage of beds. Historians consider Tripp a fringe -- here's the NY Times review: "Tripp alternates shrewd guesses and modest judgments with bluster and fantasy. He drags in references to Alfred Kinsey (with whom he once worked) to give his arguments a (spurious) scientific sheen. And he has an ax to grind. ...." Lincoln was perhaps the most hated man in America in 1861-65 but his many many enemies never accused him of being a homosexual. (in contrast to opuinion about his predecessor Pres Buchanan). Rjensen (talk) 05:52, 2 December 2010 (UTC) Here is the http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/09/books/review/09BROOKHE.html. From reading the review, the book is speculative. --Javaweb (talk) 13:20, 2 December 2010 (UTC)Javaweb Cmguy777 suggests that Pinsker supports Tripp. In fact Pinsker (see http://www.historycooperative.org/cgi-bin/justtop.cgi?act=justtop&amp;url=http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/jah/92.4/br_46.html -- I needed to go to JSTOR to verify that this was written by Pinsker) has the following to say about the book: In this widely publicized book, the late C. A. Tripp argues that Abraham Lincoln was "predominantly homosexual" (p. 20) and that his secret sex life contributed to "the qualities of his genius" (p. 214). Despite a bold and occasionally intriguing thesis, this monograph quickly degenerates into an embarrassing mess. The finished product manipulates its rather flimsy evidence, lacks historical context, contains examples of plagiarism, and makes a number of bizarre assertions. One chapter suggests a parlor game, asking readers to "jot down a list, of say, ten names of individuals who are remembered as geniuses" and then to "subtract the names of those persons known to be either homosexual or Jewish or both—and see how many are left" (pp. 209–10). Another passage compares Mary Todd Lincoln to Adolf Hitler. In short, it is not a work of serious scholarship. Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 14:20, 2 December 2010 (UTC) In his book, Lincoln's Sanctuary: Abraham Lincoln and the Soldiers' Home, Pinsker does not dismiss Tripp's theory and in fact calls Derickson, Lincoln's "companion". Pinsker writes "Without doubt, it was David Derickson, above all others, who emerged as the president's favorite new companion. In the good-natured officer from Meadville, Pennsylania, Lincoln found someone who shared his background as a former small town resident and Republican politician. Derickson even occasionally spent nights at the cottage, reportedly sharing a bed with the president—a fact that surprised and amused his fellow officers." Then Pinsker mentions the two above quotations that Derickson slept with Lincoln and even wore his bed clothes. The scandal was that Lincoln was sleeping with an officer. Pinkster says that according to Derickson's recollections of Lincoln there was a close relationship, "The available contemporary evidence fully supports these recollections of a special relationship." Lincoln even wrote on the Bucktail unit and Captain Derickson, "are very agreeable to me; and while it is deemed proper for any guard to remain, none would be more satisfactory to me than Capt. D and his company.” Pinkster does not outright dismiss that Lincoln was not a homosexual. I am not here to argue whether Lincoln was a homosexual, but rather that his sexuality has been historically evaluated. Pinkster says "There is something remarkable about the speed with which Derickson became an important part of Lincoln's personal life. More than anything else, their instant friendship seems to testify to the president's deep-seated need for support during a trying period." --Pinkster (2003), pp. 84-87 Cmguy777 (talk) 20:19, 2 December 2010 (UTC) I am all for concensus. The article on Lincoln's sexuality adequately covers the topic. If other editors are against addressing Lincoln's sexuality in the main article, then the issue should just be kept in the sexuality article on Lincoln. Cmguy777 (talk) 20:48, 2 December 2010 (UTC)</turn_topictext>
<turn_text>If a legitimate source questions Lincoln's sexuality, then it should be briefly mentioned in the main article. Lincoln's erotic poem suggests there was some homosexual attraction. </turn_text>