<article_title>United_Methodist_Church</article_title>
<edit_user>Anupam</edit_user>
<edit_time>Tuesday, July 7, 2009 6:15:42 PM CEST</edit_time>
<edit_comment>/* Clergy */ formatted reference</edit_comment>
<edit_text>The Methodist Church has allowed ordination of women with full rights of clergy since 1956,&lt;ref name=&quot;Religious Tolerance - Ordination of Women&quot;&gt;&lt;/ref&gt; based on Galatians 3:28 NRSV:&lt;ref name=&quot;UMC - Ordination of Women&quot;&gt;&lt;/ref&gt; &quot;There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;Oremus Bible Browser&quot;&gt;&lt;/ref&gt;. The United Methodist Church, along with other Protestant Churches, holds that when the historical contexts involved are understood a coherent Biblical argument can be made in favor of women's ordination.&lt;ref<strong><strike>&amp;gt;http://www.ntwrightpage.com/Wright_Women_Service_Church.htm</strike></strong><strong> name=&quot;Women’s Service in the Church&quot;&gt;{{cite web|url = http://www.ntwrightpage.com/Wright_Women_Service_Church.htm|title=Women’s Service in the Church: The Biblical Basis |publisher = St. John’s College|accessdate = 2009–07–08}}</strong>&lt;/ref&gt;</edit_text>
<turn_user>Westhsv<turn_user>
<turn_time>Tuesday, July 7, 2009 3:33:49 AM CEST</turn_time>
<turn_topicname>Local Pastors</turn_topicname>
<turn_topictext>24.236.90.91 continues to make edits which represent POV in relation to the role of Local Pastors in the UMC. While there is no doubt that Local Pastors provide a rich contribution in the life of the church, they are by "Discipline" lay persons who are appointed to serve as clergy in a particular congregation. When that appointment/relationship ends, there position as "clergy" ends unless they receive a new appointment. Elders, Deacons and Associate Members retain their status as clergy even if they are not under appointment to a congregation. While I appreciate the efforts of 24.236.90.91, they are simply not an accurate portrayal, but rather mere personal point-of-view. Revmqo (talk) 09:46, 6 July 2009 (UTC) Revmqo, It is understood by many Local Pastors that they are clergy when accepting an appointment in the UMC. Your statement "While there is no doubt that Local Pastors provide a rich contribution in the life of the church," is not only an understatement, but an outright slap in the face of our brethren that our Local Pastors. Local Pastors comprise a majority of the ministry in the UMC, so maybe this is an opinion, but it is in poor taste for persons in the UMC to think of these persons as "lesser"; your article reeks of such thought. I would also like to point out the fact that the UMC can function with minimal Elders and Deacons, but it must have Local Pastors in order to sustain its congregations. Likewise, Local Pastors require Elders for licensing. I respect the ministry of all our clergy, including you my friend. I appreciate your vigor and love for our great church, but I believe you need to give a bit more respect to those persons who serve a majority of our denomination. I am a student of the Discipline, and I think it is a logical conclusion that when persons are appointed as Local pastors, they are no longer Lay, they are Clergy. In every annual conference, when a person registers for annual conference that happens to be a Local Pastor he or she registers as "Clergy". I think the personal point-of-view is your own and your perceived disdain for a vital ministry of the UMC. In conclusion, I will continue to change this article to better reflect the respect Local Pastors have earned as well as the correct interpretation of the Discipline. (Westhsv (talk) 02:51, 7 July 2009 (UTC)) Westhsv, you need to review the rules for editing wiki. It is not enough to simply disagree and insert your personal POV. I've obviously touched on a subject that you are sensitive too, but it does not change the fact that Local Pastors are laity that are serving in a pastoral role. This is the historical and practical stance of the denomination as a whole (in its doctrine and polity). If you want to discuss the suggested change and see what others have to say, so be it. In the meantime please stop making unsourced edits! Also, for the record, Local Pastors do not constitute the majority of ministry within the church. They very well might in your Annual Conference, but across the denomination, this is not the case. Revmqo (talk) 10:32, 7 July 2009 (UTC) I have endeavored to make everyone happy by combining the spirit of what was already in the article with direct quotations/sourced material from United Methodist Publications. I invite Westhsv to comment here, rather than insert changes so that the community might be able to discuss any planned changes. Again, please watch your personal attacks when editing. Revmqo (talk) 11:04, 7 July 2009 (UTC) Revmqo, Dear brother in Christ, I apologize that you might have felt offended by anything I wrote early. At the top off the discussion page, wiki asks us to be in good faith of each other and avoid personal attacks. My recent post was in line with such a request. Your interpretation of it seems to be on the sensitive side. I do believe that when something is invariantly wrong, it should be changed. The previous article was wrong, so I changed it. I believe the new article better reflects the truth behind the valid and essential ministry Local Pastors provide, so thank you for making that happen. I hope in the future when persons challenge a statement you have made you can find it within yourself to place people in good faith, and that you will not see a challenge as a personal attack. Also, I was wrong, the Local Pastors do not comprise a current MAJORITY in the UMC, but the most recent state of the church concludes that in the very near future, Local Pastors will comprise a majority of the Ministry in the UMC. I apologize for my mistake. (Westhsv (talk) 15:06, 7 July 2009 (UTC))</turn_topictext>
<turn_text>Revmqo, It is understood by many Local Pastors that they are clergy when accepting an appointment in the UMC. Your statement "While there is no doubt that Local Pastors provide a rich contribution in the life of the church," is not only an understatement, but an outright slap in the face of our brethren that our Local Pastors. Local Pastors comprise a majority of the ministry in the UMC, so maybe this is an opinion, but it is in poor taste for persons in the UMC to think of these persons as "lesser"; your article reeks of such thought. I would also like to point out the fact that the UMC can function with minimal Elders and Deacons, but it must have Local Pastors in order to sustain its congregations. Likewise, Local Pastors require Elders for licensing. I respect the ministry of all our clergy, including you my friend. I appreciate your vigor and love for our great church, but I believe you need to give a bit more respect to those persons who serve a majority of our denomination. I am a student of the Discipline, and I think it is a logical conclusion that when persons are appointed as Local pastors, they are no longer Lay, they are Clergy. In every annual conference, when a person registers for annual conference that happens to be a Local Pastor he or she registers as "Clergy". I think the personal point-of-view is your own and your perceived disdain for a vital ministry of the UMC. In conclusion, I will continue to change this article to better reflect the respect Local Pastors have earned as well as the correct interpretation of the Discipline. (</turn_text>